Theme: Why have Muslims in the West been slow to support 9/11 and 7/7 Truth initiatives?

Notes from conference call about the fifth anniversary of the London bombings on 7/7/2005.

Nick Kollerstrom, Author of Terror on the Tube
David Livingstone, Author of Terrorism and the Illuminati
David Aossey, Author of Instruments of the State
John-Paul Leonard, Publisher, Progressive Press.

On July 7/7/2010 at 9 a.m. Pacific a discussion on these lines will be broadcast live on with host Kevin Barrett, author of Truth Jihad: My Struggle against the 9/11 Big Lie. The show will be archived.

Opening remarks:
JPL: What do the Illuminati represent?
I think most of us do accept ideas like modern science, evolution, political freedom. The problem is these movements are hijacked by a power-seeking cabal, who may even introduce them first for their purposes. So we are not necessarily on the same wavelength as old-fashioned conservatives, although we may agree with them on many things.

Kevin Barrett asked me why do I think Muslims are so conspicuous by their absence in the 911 truth movement. I said it’s hard for them to blow their own horn, people will think any conspiracy talk coming from them is self-serving and irrational. But there’s more to it.

David Livingstone has written a book about the infiltration of Islam, distorting it into two extremes, a virulent rhetorical jihad that makes false flag ops credible, and an apolitical Islam emptied of its social justice content.

Margot White also has a book called Waking up in Teheran which I’m hoping to publish. She is an eyewitness to events around the fall of the shah and subversion of the revolution. One point in the book was how during the protests against the shah the Muslim students were very passive.

Also I think she has there that the MSA -- Muslim Students Association -- was set up by characters linked to CIA overthrow of Mossadegh and the installation of Khomeini. David Livingstone says MSA was set up by Muslim Brotherhood. I remember when we published War on Freedom we tried to publicize it through MSA and nothing - I wondered why.

Dave Aossey has written Instruments of the State --
Dave A, how would you distinguish between Muslim media and Arab media? Do we have a chance to have an article about this problem of Muslim media and conspiracy viewpoint in TIM The Independent Monitor?

Nick K is author of Terror on the Tube the only book to say 77 was an inside job
we did get Nick on Edge TV in the UK and I think we could have something like this panel there but you have to go to UK in person
7/14 (the date of the conference on the War on Terror in London) is also Bastille Day

Dave L. French revolution was first great success of the illuminati, establishment of a secular state
enlightenment and illuminati…
Dave L. Illuminati secularism have attacked Christianity first of all. They want to set themselves up as God, above morality.
JPL: There were some excesses in religion but cutting out morality is throwing out the baby with the bath water
so secular humanism and world religions agree on morality
NK. Henry Makow talks about the attack on morality. He’s another guy we could have one sometime!
Dave L or JPL. Jesus message was about the corruption of religion, of freeing it from those distortions.
so Wahhabis claim to free Islam of corruption of religion. Illuminati use religions against each other.
JPL Tarpley in his work Against Oligarchy says the Venetians used religious warfare, they were behind the Protestant movement and the 30 years war. Carr says Calvin was really Cohen, from Switzerland, the fortress state of the money power.
David L: Neocons, illuminati take from Plato’s idea of noble lies.
3 world wars by Carr: the 3rd war is against Islam.
DA: Re; Arab and Muslim media - In the US the Muslim community in general is very concerned about appearing "un-American". Here in S. Cal there has been an uproar about the FBI infiltrating Friday prayers at mosques and so on. In San Diego the San Diego mosque went so far as to hang a giant American flag on the outside of the mosque.
DA: The "Arab" community is not so concerned about standing up to government policy and so they tend to be more outspoken about the US government. The Palestinian issue for example is strictly against US policy so the Arabs are more open about being critical and are more willing to push the envelope. Its a subtle difference but as an Arab American I can see it very clearly.
JPL: But we can’t get the 911 Truth and the Free Palestine movements to work together. Another kind of the divide and conquer that is profiteering from war. Have your rivals fight each other to make money and gain power
Dave L. Supposedly end of communism was the "end of history" – no way. Next on the agenda is cold war on Islam. The attack on Christianity too -dismantling of Christian influence -
JPL. Except for right wing rapture nuts. I read somewhere that if a religion abandons their holy city they are finished! Christendom has abandoned Jerusalem to Jews. But maybe they think they are allying with Jews to get it back from Moslems.
Dave A - west distinguishes between east and west Christianity. They are anti Russian, anti orthodox, anti Serb
racism may have something to do with it? - there is near zero solidarity with Palestinian Christians among US churches
they've divided world into Zionist and non Zionist
Have been blaming Iran for things for decades like the Argentine embassy bombing and airplane bombing.
JPL. About the credulousness towards the media here, at least the press in Europe don't all pretend to be neutral and objective. They are known to present a political tendency.

NK: Can 911 Truth movement continue?
Nigerian panty bomber. his father a millionaire and president of Islamic union as undergraduate is that possible?
DL - depends who is financing the group
DL psychological state of Muslims in the west - cultural - why they’ve come to the west, for materialistic reasons - hypocritical - this political background makes them inept -
The War on Terror was started 150 years ago with the British creation of the Wahhabi sect, they are the backbone of British strategy to undermine Islam. Joined with Salafi movement in 20th century. Most Muslim organizations in the west are Salafi or affiliated like Deobandi from Pakistan.
Wahhabis were defeated by Ottomans but saved by British, sect was insignificant on its own
Of course Turk empire was one of the rivals to be eliminated
Carr – Pawns in the Game - 3 world wars - 3rd one against Islam
Salafis and Ismailis are Masonic probably also Muslim brotherhood – these things are done by the Wahhabis, Salafis and the CIA
JPL Do we have any difference of views on whether 911 was an inside job?
I think Saudis were complicit at some level by providing the patsies but they were only patsies
Dave L: Islamic terrorism is an oxymoron – Islam allows no violence against civilians
but Wahhabism has distanced people from classical heritage. Sheikh Wahhab rejected traditions
Saudis control 80% of mosques in US, UK
they claim they go back to roots - salaf means first generation, but this is a ruse
JPL. Parallel to Tarpley thesis about Venetians and Protestantism, supposedly back to bible and every man his own preacher, Darby and all that.
Back to can 911 Truth keep going -
NK. Latest is the degree of Israeli involvement. of course we knew the neocons were running the government under Bush. 65% of people think the JFK murder was a conspiracy.
What % of people think 911 was a conspiracy? Less. On 7/7 only 5% are aware in the UK.
Most don’t want to know. Don't upset the survivors.
JPL: Big market for Nick to open up.
DA - In So. California, an active group of Muslims at UC Irvine stood up to the attacks on Muslims, like they protested visits by Israeli diplomats. They were disbanded. They slam down hard on them and media control what we are seeing, no one ever hears about it.
JPL. How about TIM, The Independent Monitor? (Arab newspaper in Los Angeles.) Maybe we can get an article on this in there now or next month?
DA wrote to the Muslim Weekly in London some years back, they were willing to publish an article for him then.
Would they do a conspiracy article?
DA Could be worth a shot
is it this ?
NK. Muslim media in Britain all backed out of 5th anniversary July 7th coverage, after initial interest.
One good group is Global Peace and Unity, they meet every year, so now they've been framed for alleged terrorism - Ali Haref
JPL. With 9/11 truth we had really overwhelming evidence of state terrorism, revealing how the war on terrorism is fabricated. You had three buildings going down at free-fall speed, one of them not even alleged to be hit by an airplane, physically impossible without controlled demolition. Yet most people still could not see it.
People can't accept evidence that conflicts with their world view. So we have to work on their world view though all new issues that come up e.g. the bankster bailout
NK: The peace movement is tied up with a pro socialist agenda
JPL: left is just one side of French chamber of deputies [in the Illuminati-instigated French Revolution].
Leftism is not the way.
DL - Present it as issue of war on terror – the cold war on Islam. Things are getting worse in this war.
They keep the false flag actions coming, keep boosting it by repetition, until people believe in the terrorism
DA: is the right website - I know the editor. I can approach him with whatever you'd like to publish if you'd like me to.
DL. Intelligent people, college students, during the cold war with Russia, you asked them do you really think Russia was evil and they thought yes, it was the threat.
JPL: Of course communism was not a good thing nor was fascism. this is the countergang thing where they create the reality - a substitute reality - ditto Japanese militarism was created by banksters - they assassinated the Japanese emperor in around 1860 and put in their own dynasty
DL. Gladio - stopping the coalition with the PCI in Italy which could’ve been a stable government. Gladio organized by Gehlen old nazi.
DL Muslim brotherhood were Egypt version of Gladio trained by the Nazi Gehlen and then the CIA, Otto Skorzeny. Strategia della tensione
NK nurturing of the "al qaida threat" -
DL goes back to Jamal Uddin al Afghani, grand master eastern star lodge, British agent, best friend James Sanua and with Blavatsky
JPL: Tarpley says New Age is a CIA or Illuminati trick – at first I didn't think so but he is right. It’s a side attack on organized religion. [Russian spy Notovitch who wrote a New Age classic -- probably a hoax -- about Jesus in India – also wrote a book urging the Tsar to join the Entente with England and France against Germany – was he a British double agent?]
DL: Afghani may have given Blavatsky the core of her teaching. The 19th century occult revival in Europe - secret societies. Begin of war on terror. Ottoman empire was crumbling, it was the last obstacle to destroy the Islamic world – which was already so destroyed they needed to create an opposition.
DL: People like Bulwer-Lytton, the guru of the English Rosicrucians. They go to Egypt to study under Afghani’s Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, then come back to Europe and found the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light.
JPL: Tarpley says the Scottish rite created by British as an alternative to the freemasons who launched the American revolution.
DL Scottish rite claims descent from the Ismaili Assassins, but actually fabricated, not really descended from Hasan al Sabah - fake pedigree.
JPL. Could the Assassins have been a countergang introduced by the Venetians? They went around assassinating sultans.
DL. Maimun, a secret Jew, was predecessor to Hasan Al Sabah.
JPL: So Hitler was a British agent through this occultist link?
JPL: Important to understand countergang concept. 9/11 Truth has made us familiar with the false flag technique. But sometimes it’s more than just a fake operation, they create real entities, bands of gangsters that they insert into control in a rival power, to provoke war on them. Extremely useful concept. The word countergang came into the language through a book by British General Kitson, who created the Kenyan Mau Mau. The purpose was to defeat progressive Kenyan nationalism. The Mau Mau killed about 22 whites, but they eliminated 10’s of 1000’s of native progressive nationalists.
Now was 911 a countergang or a false flag op?
DL: Atta was a mind-control subject, he was a key to leading the operation, the others may have just gone along.
JPL. On the psychological end you need some patsies or a countergang for propaganda. But for the technical execution you wouldn’t depend on mental defectives. It's done by military grade professionals.
Al Jazeera is said to be MI6 – it gets to the Arab street with this heroic distortion of terrorism – parents naming their sons Osama etc.
NK. Power of Nightmares - how al qaida was mocked up
“station break”
NK: Great video, 7/7 Ripple Effect. Muaddib’s scenario, how the four scapegoats missed their train, were late, realized something was wrong when they heard about the bombings, and were liquidated at Canary Wharf.
JPL you can get it at
NK. They are talking about an inquest, no investigation but an inquest about the victims. But no inquest about the 4 alleged culprits. They’ve got their fabricated evidence now, dodgy CCTV frames came out a couple years ago
A hung jury acquitted friends of the four, so they retried them, the 2nd Kingston trial was trumped up, 3 were found innocent, then jailed on another charge- thought crime: intending to go to Pakistan for some training.
JPL: If people in the US realized that 7/7 was the lead in to the new anti terror act in the UK which was the model for the thought crime act in the US, the Homegrown Violent Radicalization Act. [Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007]
NK. Then on 7/21 there was a phantom terror operation - nobody hurt – on that date, the US House of Representatives voted to take out the sunset clause in the “Patriot Act.”
JPL. They do these booster shots for the war on terror
NK. Like the liquid bomb hoax at Heathrow. No bombs. Suspects allegedly intending to make bombs. Jailed.
JPL. Maybe if an Arab American says 9/11 was an inside job people will think the argument is self serving. How to get through to Muslims who cant understand that 9/11 is the stick they are being beaten with?
DA: Even getting Arabs behind Palestine is a problem. You have nationalism, they don’t see Palestine as their issue.
JPL: Nationalism was imported into the Islamic world, with destruction of Turkish caliphate. Why should there not be a khalifate? You have European Union, Russian Federation, all these big blocs.
David: first thing you talk about khalifate sheep dipping as caricature - a threat against the world
DA – first thing you mention a khalifate and they start with Muslims are going to try the khalifate in Spain - reestablish Andalusia. It’s caricatured to make Islam a threat. Like jihad and holy war.
DL. TE Lawrence promoted idea of new khalifate.
JPL: but he was the one that destroyed the Turkish one!
DL: uebernationalism. The CIA is using this idea to rile up Muslims against China in East Turkestan. Pan turanism -
uniting Turkish peoples in a new caliphate.
DL The US UK Israel Saudi Pakistan and Turks are the partners in the war on terror, CIA strategy.
JPL: I think Pakistan and Turkey are in on but on worse terms – they are trying to break up Pakistan – anyway it’s just their countergangs running the country we’re talking about, not the actual people.
[not sure whose remark] The British Embassy was blown up for a provocation in Istanbul, which was convenient to take pressure off Bush on his visit in UK. Rumsfeld was at a NATO meeting in Istanbul - like the Madrid bomb after NATO meeting.
Drugs too - Turkey is transit point for drugs.
JPL: Pakistan could be the corridor for an oil pipeline from the Gulf to China, that’s why they want to break it up.
DL: Khomeini also installed by CIA. They keep it complicated, there are different levels of complicity and for different levels of strategy
DA: Pakistani ISI is controlled by CIA, works against Pak interests – does things like making fake Bin Laden videos
JPL: so these agencies are like moles of empire. Like Hirohito.
JPL: Nick your book has an important message for young Muslims, never go on a drill, don't be co-opted, beware. They had told their families they were on confidential business. They must have been recruited in an anti-terror operation, so they couldn’t talk about it, and they went along out of eagerness to show what good Brits they were trying to be.
NK. One of the lads was actually given a tour of parliament. They were led to believe they were being accepted.
DL – Muslims have to face what their reason was for coming to West
DA - grandparents came from Lebanon. Motive economic conditions. People in the Middle East if you ask if they had to choose where to live, they say US. The policy is to get whites to believe that Arabs hate America. The opposite is the case!
NK. One of the 4 lads from Leeds, named Khan, was like this, he wore a cowboy hat when he returned from a trip to the US.
DA But Arabs are bothered by anti Islamic strategy of the US.
NK We live in countries that need an enemy image
DL talking to cop in UK why all these people are here and he says, they were brought here on purpose to be scapegoated! They are planning a clash of civilizations - no small strategy.
JPL Pike didn't need to send a letter to Mazzini - they were working for the same outfit.
DL Palladian rite
DL: Leo Taxil [French anti masonic anti catholic, wikipedia says he was a hoaxer]
JPL: This clash goes back to the Crusades and Venetians aiding Mongol hordes as their eyes and ears in western Asia.
DL. Hegel – attack on Germany. Dialectical thesis antithesis - Plato got this from the Kabbala. They say man will evolve into realizing he is god. Democracy is the formulation of the secular idea.
JPL. what instead of democracy?
DL: Islam – but not the taliban version. A multicultural society.
JPL Respect for people of the book
DA I’m a contemporary Muslim American - ethnic Muslim you could say – my brother is very religious - Muslims are their own worst enemy because they really aren't very tolerant of other religions like far eastern ones. Brother is very down on Buddhism.
NK: They say there is no god but Allah.
DL: Christian Arabs also use the word Allah.
JPL. Allah is the word Jesus used for God in Aramaic - no God but Allah just means monotheism.
DA Intolerance hurts Muslims in the Palestine issue because they buy into the children of Abraham stuff while rejecting Zionism. Same with Christians who buy into the old testament
DL Problem is not practicing classical Islam - project of the Wahhabis - reinvent and estrange Islam from classic roots.
JPL. There is no compulsion in religion [saying of Prophet Mohamed]
NK. Three of Leeds lads (7/7 scapegoats) were very secular, interested in cricket and girl friends, only one was religious. Attempts were made to link them to Finsbury mosque (MI6 nest of jihadist provocateurs)
Nafeez Ahmed says MI5 nurtured the story of their radicalization there, but none of the 4 ever actually went to Finsbury mosque. It’s in North London [no where near Leeds which is way up in Yorkshire]
JPL - Man is evolving - CIA is hijacking trains – they are sociological realists, they don’t care what the new tendency is going to be, they just want to be driving the train. Also I am ambivalent about globalization – the world is knitting together. But the Illuminati are cunning and they see these things coming and make them happen in the way that will give them their dream of world power.
DL. Islamic principles of social justice. Banning interest. The money power
JPL. All real religions and philosophies share common denominators, to be a good person etc. Those are the fundamentals. They have hijacked the word "fundamentals" for things that divide people, make them fundamentalists fighting each other over details.
DA? a society without charity is barbaric
NK. Howard Wilson said no to Vietnam – he was the last British PM who said No. We remember those as the good times for the UK. He didn't peddle fear like power of nightmares
JPL. so maybe we don't have to convert people but just make them live up to what they say they believe!
DL. Christian Zionism Leo Strauss noble lies, Darby dispensationalism, etc.
The Koran warns about hypocrites, so does the Bible. It means Afghani, al qaida, Zionism. They say “Jesus Jesus” then can manipulate people into taking their message because they think they are with you. Not evaluating what they say for itself
JPL. This is the loss of thinking ability – there were 4 R’s not 3 – they left out rhetoric, which we are told is just hot air. It’s the science of evaluating arguments, of avoiding rhetorical fallacies. What people need is how to think and how to live up to their belief system.
NK. Trivium was the 3 R's of the middle ages: rhetoric, logic and grammar. They’ve left out the first two.
NK There nearly always is an Israeli thread in these events. Netanyahu knows 7/7 going to happen.
Odigo office just around corner from [WTC?]. Their HQ in Israel. sent out warning an hour before 911 bombings. No Israeli victims. Larry Silverstein. 5 dancing Israelis.
JPL see 911 Missing Links DVD I sell on amazon and on my site
NK. The Israelis are let off. We were there to record it they say on Israeli TV
JPL – This is the money power from Venice and they have had a Jewish element for a long time. Look at Shakespeare’s play Merchant of Venice, the main character is the Jew Shylock. They have often used Jewish bankers in their strategy. But look also at Carr’s Pawns in the Game. Even though he emphasizes the Jewish role, he is careful to point out that we must avoid the trap they are setting, of a pro and anti-Jewish divide.
DL – It’s the Kabbala. Like Makow says - they are sabbatean Jews not real ones
NK. Years later it comes out that Ehud Olmert who became prime minister of Israel was in NYC on 911
JPL Like bush in Dallas on 11/22/63
NK. Sabrosky has come out with it how 911 was run by Israel.
NK. Tarpley’s 911 Synthetic Terror is a great book but it is inadequate in this aspect. Tarpley says MI6 was most heavily involved foreign agency. It should have said Mossad.
DL But the City of London runs US. Muslim brotherhood worked at the whim of multiple intelligence agencies.
JPL. They even had Ptech, [the software moles inside NORAD/FAA] supposedly Saudi link
NK. Saudi cutout for Israel
DL Taboo to discuss Jewish involvement, especially if you’re not Jewish. 9/11 Truthers who avoid the issue are trying to be circumspect. You just get shut down if you’re seen as anti-semitic. This is one of the layers of complexity built in. It’s all so complicated and convoluted.
JPL. that gives them plausible deniability. Who would think any group would attack their own? Too complicated for people.
Maybe we can do this again with Henry Makow
DL. Shabateans and Frankists. The Shabateans evolved into the Asiatic Brethren, supposed to be eastern mystics that the Templars had come into contact with. Mostly Jews, Syrians, Armenians. A lot of important figures, Count St. Germain, Castrioglio [spelling?], Swedenborg
DL: Important book indicating this: Antelman: To Eliminate the Opiate
JPL: Looked it up, identifies connection between Rothschilds and Illuminati
NK. Ruppert’s Crossing the Rubicon mentions Israeli nexus. It’s set up so each party can blackmail the other.
JPL. Trying to present these questions you run into difficulties because of the reality that has been created. This is why we have to open up more questions than just 9/11. People have to take apart the false reality.
NK. John le Carré novel the Little Drummer Girl about Israeli terror in Europe. How they get away with it
Jews are allowed to talk about it more openly so recommend Henry Makow and Israel Shamir
DL Present the whole picture.
JPL Can’t be seen as an ax to grind
DA My book is even handed, not kind to Mossad and Zionists, but also hard on Lebanese and middle easterners too, in context of drug trade and buying into biblical jargon.
JPL. CIA predicts Israel can't last. Don’t know if that is more disinformation from that trusted source.
DL. European colonists have ruled parts of Palestine for long periods before but were always eventually forced out

End of notes.
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